“The Daily Yes” – Interview with Adrian J. Hopkins, Weber Shandwick
Adrian J. Hopkins: I'm just uniquely fascinated with whatever people seem to be fascinated by and making sure that they feel like someone cares about the fact that they do it.
Barry: Yeah. What a morning for this.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Well this is the perfect New York morning. If you're going to be here for just a short period of time this is the view I would want to have anybody see. Obviously being in Manhattan is nice, I just happen to think looking at Manhattan is better. That's the Brooklynite in me.
Barry: Yeah, you can tell the style. The style as we were talking about before this is... I never feel cool enough to really walk...
Adrian J. Hopkins: It's just about, honestly it's just about whatever makes you comfortable and makes you feel good. And like that's what this... I think that's what I've loved about living in New York and why I always wanted to live here is that everybody can be themselves here. And I think especially being in the space that we've been in around employee engagement and employee experience and all that, one of the things I've said is being your best authentic self. Yes. And so this city I think is such a great laboratory for that. And it's one of the uh, you know major factors for why being in this career is just constantly inspiring for me because I get to walk around New York City, I see so many people living different lifestyles, speaking different languages, you know, wearing flag clothes. I'm just like, why would you have to put any of that under a bushel to go to work? Yes. You know.
Barry: Yeah. Tell us about your current role.
Adrian J. Hopkins: I'm the Global Head of Employee Engagement and Communications at an agency called Weber Shandwick. And that is a title, but one of the ways that I describe it when I talk to people who are not in this space is "the daily yes." Okay. And so the daily yes is what are the factors that are happening at work that make you feel like you're excited to go to work that day? So is it great relationships with colleagues? Is it what you get to learn? Is it, you know, the fact that you're doing work that solves problems for clients? Are you winning awards? Are you best in class, are you best in industry? All of that is what we can say is true at Weber Shandwick.
And it's exciting to do that for a firm that is doing great creative work, doing great advisory work, great work in technology. And for me, it's just about making sure that globally across all of our operations, is there a consistent approach to how we provide the employee experience? Sure. And so having great partners in the EMEA region and APAC and LATAM and being here in North America, all of us have the same goal. And my job is not to make it uniform, but just to make sure that we are allowing each uh, each region to be unique and provide great programming, great consistency to, you know, the business objectives, you know, putting it all together.
Barry: So when you think about communications or a communication strategy...
Adrian J. Hopkins: Mhm.
Barry: When you want to build one of those from the ground up, what are the core elements or principles, components of that that you always want to see in place?
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah, I mean first and foremost, you know, every organization has business objectives. So you cannot come up with a strategy that is not tied to that. Okay. So for us you know, it is being an industry leader and making sure that people feel like they are part of the agency that is the agency of the future. Okay. So not just solving the problems that clients bring to you, but can we use enough of our insights and intelligence and technology to be able to predict where challenges may arise? And that can range from, you know, strategic crisis uh, management, it can also range you know, down to just brilliant creative executions.
And so all of that as the sort of top frame, then what do we need to make sure that people have um, access to in order to be able to bring their best selves to that job and make sure that they understand how their job fits with the strategy? And so the communications strategy that we're really running right now is in our global town halls that we do twice a year. And for that, it's always going to have a sort of big picture of like, here's where we are, and then also here's where it's for you.
Barry: Okay, interesting, because we talk about that all the time as well. The "what's in it for me." Because without that it becomes... it just becomes quite conceptual.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah.
Barry: And theoretical almost. It's like, well okay, that's great that at a high corporate level that's the objective and that's the goal, but how does that impact my daily work and the impact that I can have as an individual?
Adrian J. Hopkins: Exactly. And if you consider too that you know, I remember probably about 10 years ago, I can't remember whose book it was, but the concept of the tour of duty when it comes to career, where individuals are deciding which companies to work for and which type of roles they want to be in. So I think in the communications realm, when we're talking about how to address employees, we got to understand that we are, first of all, any comms that we send to them is interrupting them from whatever it is that they were doing prior to getting this email. So make it worthwhile in the moment. And then also understand that people are thinking about, "well, I'm going to do my best in this role," but they might be thinking of you know, other things that they may want to do in their careers. So while they're here at this place, what are we doing to help them feel like they can do the best work of their careers while they're here and to help us power what matters to us in the business?
Barry: And what is it that lights you up when it comes to that work, your role? What is it where you go "that's the part I love"?
Adrian J. Hopkins: So I would say that honestly the personal relationships that I get to have with people who have so many different backgrounds and so many things that are interesting to them. I've been very fortunate to have managers who were willing to invest in me and provide all the different experiences that seemed interesting to me that also solved business problems. And so it's fascinating for me to meet people who do so many different types of um, do so many types of jobs. Yeah. So people who are excelling in you know, developing our AI agents, or people who are excelling in creative, people who are excelling in like you know, being the like killer executive admin. It's like I'm just uniquely fascinated with whatever people seem to be fascinated by and making sure that they feel like someone cares about the fact that they do it. Yeah. And so that's I think that ultimately is what motivates me every day because I just am genuinely interested in people who are just committed to something.
Barry: It's interesting that you've got a globally dispersed audience.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah.
Barry: And the common ground in the comms, in the messaging.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah.
Barry: How... are there certain things you look for when it comes to designing that message or delivering that message to make sure that it's globally consistent but locally relevant?
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah, I mean having core values as um, as an agency helps make that a lot more attainable. A lot more attainable. Yeah. Um, because I can't really speak to what the day-to-day experience in Singapore is like. And I won't necessarily try to force it into any box. But if we know that we're committed to inclusion as a value, or to creativity as a value, courage as a value, you know then that I think gives us enough of a common ground to start and we can form the right comms from there about like what's mattering locally, but we're still speaking to the same values that we all share.
Barry: What have you, by the way... do you ever come out here and does this ever get old for you?
Adrian J. Hopkins: No, it does not. I've always wanted to live in New York and whenever I'm at this area I think about the history of the city. I think about who I was you know when I was growing up. I mean the Statue of Liberty is right there. Um, so you really get to see so much of the city's evolution um, all in one shot. So you have some of the oldest skyscrapers, some of the newest skyscrapers. And for me as a person who is um, very much motivated by change but also very grounded in history, I get this all in one shot anytime I come over here.
Barry: Yeah. It's amazing isn't it? It's like the classic skyline view. Yeah. How much do you think the... you mentioned earlier on about having such a concentration of different people, different experiences on your doorstep.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah.
Barry: How much do you think the place where you've been for the last 20 years has shaped the way you are maybe in work and out of work?
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah, a great deal. I mean I think two things. One, as I've grown up and I've been really fortunate to have you know great education and great um, great professional relationships, the thing that's always been important to me is to be the same person in my personal life as I am in my professional life because I have always been supported to be that way. And so New York is a laboratory where I'm just seeing that on a day-to-day basis. So that's thing one.
Thing two is you know, there's just so... there's such a rich diversity of the experiences that people have here and what people do. So riding the subway every single day in the way that I do is also its own sociological experiment where you can just see like people off to different types of jobs, you know, people who are working quote-unquote blue collar jobs, people who are working you know the white collar jobs, people who are you know struggling economically. It really helps me have a sense of place. Yeah. And helps me have great context and I think um, perspective about what I get to do every day. So you know, even in the times that um you know work gets challenging, it is still a great privilege that I have to be able to have a job first and foremost and then have a job that also allows me to think about other people's experiences for a living.
Barry: Yeah. It's interesting that you're you're thinking about that from a curiosity perspective as a person. Yes. It is important for your role because you are also communicating messages to a huge range of people. Yeah. But you know we've talked to people about work-life balance and how yes it's important, but I think more and more when authenticity is probably at a greater premium than it's ever been...
Adrian J. Hopkins: Mhm. It's your whole self. It is. It is.
Barry: So of course we want to make sure that we're not all consumed by anything at any one time perhaps.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah.
Barry: But knowing that the authenticity of whoever you are, the focus may shift but the person stays the same.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah, I mean and even the concept of work-life balance is something that you know is a term we I think we all try to mean the same thing when we say it, but I think the last 5 years you know, from the COVID experience, I think blew the doors off of whatever the box was. Like "well, work has to be like this, life has to be like this." It's like, well they're kind of smashed into themselves right now. And again being conscious of whatever may have happened in people's lives within the past 5 years as they've gone through um, you know a global pandemic. Did they lose people in their lives? Did they have to relocate from where they used to live? Has anything changed in their life? Probably a lot of things have changed in their lives. So to try to just be conscious and respectful of that as we're also trying to you know move an organization forward just feels like a constant um, it's like a constant reminder.
Barry: Yeah. Yeah.
Adrian J. Hopkins: It's like a constant challenge, is a constant like "remember, even though the world has gotten to a different place or you know we're outside or you know we're post-COVID," um, I again being a history major, being grounded in like "we're not that far from whatever just happened," um, it's just like it stays fresh for me.
Barry: You know what's interesting about our conversation so far is that sense of perspective is something that you seem to hold very tightly.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah, it means a lot to me to do that. Yeah.
Barry: Adrian's first paid job right? What was that?
Adrian J. Hopkins: Uh, well the first paid job incidentally was when I was a kid because my mother was working in an office job and she paid me an allowance of sorts...
Barry: Yes.
Adrian J. Hopkins: To alphabetize all of her files.
Barry: Okay.
Adrian J. Hopkins: So all the manila folders, making sure that everything was lined up you know in the right way.
Barry: Yeah. Smart delegation.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Absolutely. Absolutely. And she also knew I was really motivated by it, that by you know, by language and by spelling things correctly, I was a spelling bee champion.
Barry: Okay.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Um, so that was... that was the true first you know, paid job. But then coming here, um, my first job was working in television.
Barry: Oh right. Okay.
Adrian J. Hopkins: And so that was in 2006 and I was working at the VH1 TV network um, under the MTV umbrella. And it was at that point, it was I think it was a perfect place to start my career, especially now given what I've been up to right? Which is that was a place that I got to... I could have gone to work just like this, and you know in terms of this attire there are people who were... yeah like but also I mean it was the coolest, it was the coolest brand um on the planet at that point. And so to feel like I can be um, you know, professional and hip at the same time, it's like well why would I want to... why would I want to put a suit on for any other job that I have?
Barry: And did you intentionally seek out... was that something that you were conscious of at the time? I mean I'm sure the brand is attractive, the industry was exciting. Um, is... was that the attraction for you, or was the attraction that this fits me more than putting a suit on every day or whatever that might be?
Adrian J. Hopkins: I think it was... I mean it was a blend of both. I mean I had always been fascinated by the media and communications industry because I am someone who was fascinated by storytelling, fascinated by brand. And having been um, most recently in college right before then, I had been a magazine entrepreneur. And so I was very motivated by figuring out the right blend of creativity and business. And so finding my way into that environment at age 21, 22 felt like the best place to start my career for whatever it was I was going to do next.
Barry: Yeah. Have you ever found the tension between creative endeavor—excuse me—or creativity and commerciality a challenge? Have you ever had instances where one has had to slightly lean toward the other, or have you ever had to think about "well we're just going to have to be a little more commercial here because that's where it is"?
Adrian J. Hopkins: Um, I've been fortunate to I think, living at the intersection, I've not been a place... I've not been in a place where I've had the sole creative decisions land on me. Okay. But understanding that conflict that can exist, I have often been in that place where... take for instance I was um, the head of strategy at a creative agency after I was at VH1 for three years, went to grad school and then went to a branding agency. Um, I had to be the person that was effectively the diplomat or the translator between like what the client is looking for and what my designers are trying to execute. So we have people who are trying to make killer web designs, you know have the most brilliant type execution for the visual identity. And I'm on the other side hearing from the client and saying "I can't read that. Make the logo bigger." Right? And I'm just like "Okay cool, I understand what you're trying to say, we're talking about legibility." So that's what you want to hear. And also like, you want to make sure that um, that your brand shows up well. So I have to learn how to have that two-way dialogue you know, to live between um you know two potentially divergent points of view.
And so that's how I think about the balance that has to exist between the sort of commercial needs and creative needs, because ultimately we're trying to just solve problems. Ultimately we're just trying to get messages out to audiences at the right place and right time in the right format. And we just have to find the right harmony to do that that makes people have the maximum amount... the maximum amount of satisfaction.
Barry: Yeah. And the least amount of hating each other.
Adrian J. Hopkins: So somewhere in there I think we can find a good product.
Barry: Yeah. If you can make that happen it's... it's the goal. Yeah, let's think about uh, maybe a moment in your career where you went down a certain path and it may have been challenging, and at the end of it it led to maybe something else. And was there ever a time where you thought "Oh, I'm not sure about this"?
Adrian J. Hopkins: Okay, yes. Yes. So as I said, you know, starting my career in uh that intersection of creativity and business and being fascinated equally by both, I thought that my career was going to go in a direction that was going to lead into you know general management or running a company you know, being the head of a media brand. Yes. And I was fortunate to find myself working at the New York Times when they were investing quite a bit in brand marketing um, at an entity called T Brand Studio. And having come from a creative agency I was like "Okay, this is going to be my my platform to really show that I can do this on a big institutional level and figure out how to build something inside of a storied brand." Yeah.
And along the way what I found was not so much uh, objections or hurdles to that, but I found myself... and this is what I realize when I talk to people who I do career coaching for... it's like what you're naturally spending time on is actually the thing that you want to be doing. So I got to the organization, I got to the Times, I started to spend a lot of time talking to the you know, peers who are about my age. I was just in my early 30s at that time. Yes. About their careers and like how you know, what are you working on here? And I kept hearing stories over and over again like "yeah, I want to do this, but I'm not really sure how to figure out the right way to to go explore that path." Or I would talk to people who had been there for 20 years, they were probably 20 years you know my senior, they were saying the same thing. And I was like "okay, we just got to figure out what's going on here."
And so I just found that I became so much more motivated by this professional development problem or professional development challenge, and the advertising sort of gusto that I had started to really go by the wayside. And rather than having a sort of career existential crisis... I mean I did have a bit of that... but rather than sort of living in that moment, I decided to bet on myself and took a chance to knock on the door of the head of HR at that time. And I asked her what she had in mind for career development. And she said that mentorship was a big priority for her and she wanted to make sure that there could be something that could be applicable for everyone at the company. And I said, "Well I don't have an HR background, I had been running a uh, a career advice column on the side and had been doing career coaching on the side, and I had done some other you know entrepreneurial things inside of the Times you know from where I was sitting in the studio." And I said, "Well listen, I'd love to be a part of making something like that happen for you." She said, "Well we're going to open up a role and why don't we get you in the lineup for candidates for that." And I had to prove myself you know to the newsroom, to the business side... and to HR of course... that this guy with no HR background could come in and run a mentorship program. And I got the gig and I ran that for three years and it became something that they still run right now.
Barry: Wow. So that's the legacy of you going and taking the ownership of your own career.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah, exactly.
Barry: And asking the question.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Asking a question. And then just again, just paying attention to where are my natural activities, my interests actually going? Because it's one thing for me to say that I'm passionate about advertising, for me to say that I'm passionate about media, but where am I actually spending my time? It's with people. And it's listening to people, it's talking with people. It's trying to help individuals solve these major career questions that they have. And that pivot in 2017 after I had been in my career for about a decade really launched me to everything that I've done ever since.
Barry: Wow. When you talk to people that might be in early stages of their career now... is that a key thing that you say to them, like ultimately you're responsible? Yes. And do you think it's actually even just early stage? Do you think it's actually everybody? Yes. Ultimately you're responsible for driving where you're going next.
Adrian J. Hopkins: It is. But I think it's also, and that's one thing I say, and you heard me say it, I'm a history major even still, you know I've been out of college for 20 years. But I think that it serves people well to be students of their own careers. So asking questions about the fields that they're interested in, reading the trades or reading whatever it is that might be impacting the field of the work that they want to do. Yep. Um, I think that also will help them kind of see where... what am I continuing to read, or can they sustain their interest in that thing long enough? And then from there I think that's where the career interest actually emerges. Because they may be motivated by like "well I just want to make money." It's like "okay well there's a lot of different ways to make money." So what are you actually going to do to stay committed to that profession or stay committed to that role when things get hard? Not if things get hard, but when things get hard. Are you going to be interested enough in solving this problem? Do you have a thesis? Do you have a you know... do you have a burning thing in you that keeps you up at night to say like "I just can't stand the way that this thing happens and I'm going to solve it like this"?
Barry: Do you find there's an opportunity with a communications role or strategy that fosters that culture of I guess intentionality, or people being intentional with the reflection or the what's next part of it? Ultimately probably an openness.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yes. I think so. I mean I've been fortunate to have, again having the HR background that I do, I've also been fortunate to have this partnership in communications roles where it does have a natural tendency to link up with the talent development teams. Yes. Okay. And so it's easy to say "okay well we're trying to push these things out for the business." Yeah. "But what do you have going on from the learning and development aspect that also plugs into the business objectives?" And how can we make sure that people see the opportunity to learn as alongside of what we want people to be striving for.
Barry: On your town halls... you said you run them twice a year?
Adrian J. Hopkins: Our global ones we do twice a year.
Barry: Town halls. Do you set those up in such a way that I'm sure there's uh you know, high-level strategic initiatives, update on corporate goals etc. But is there... and I'm thinking of some of your New York Times experience as well, which I'm sure is uh positively challenging from a comms perspective. It's very much a two-way street I would have thought. Um, is that something you've brought forward with you into your current position in the way that you think about structuring a town hall environment?
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah. That where it is two-way. For sure. And so I think about two-way in two ways incidentally um, inside out, outside in. Okay. So and that's something that I've picked up uniquely from the folks at Weber Shandwick, which I love because these are folks who as I mentioned, they're at the intersection of culture in all these different um different fields. Yep. So it's important inside out to be able to see like "okay well how does the work that we're doing right now transform the communications industry?" So we'll make sure that we have some element of programming where we get to talk to an outside partner right, um about whether they're a client or you know someone who's uh in the um in the media about what is the work that we're doing inside, what is that impact having on you know on the field outside. Sure.
Um, but then outside in, I think an example is if we're hearing so much about generative AI or agentic AI, what does that mean for what we do here? Yes. And so that is actually something that we are focused you know very uniquely on because we've built our own platforms to be able to augment what we do specifically. So it's not just "everybody go use you know whatever the latest you know like the trendiest platform happens to be." Like we've built something that helps you do uniquely what you need to do for your clients. And so we take the best of the outside and make it relevant for you. And then obviously the inside or the other two-way is just like effective leaders, leadership, citizenship. Yes. Dialogue. Yes. To making sure that people feel like there's a consistent feedback loop and having leaders feel that it's their responsibility to be approachable, but also it's your responsibility as a day-to-day employee to ask the questions that you want to have answered.
Barry: Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. Again it comes back to that ownership point.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Mhm.
Barry: Of there's something on your mind, you got to go ask it.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah. Who's going to know?
Barry: Yeah. And I... it's uh, it sounds like the values work that you mentioned earlier on feeds that.
Adrian J. Hopkins: It does. It does. I mean again being in an organization that takes the values seriously is what makes all of that feasible. Because it's one thing to just say that you have the value of "who's in there" that's written up on a wall somewhere.
Barry: Yeah exactly.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Um, but I see it and I feel it. And I think this is also you know from a career standpoint, helping people understand that when they're interviewing for roles for instance, that they should also be interviewing the company. You know, making sure that they can get what they're looking for out of the role. Like what's the environment that you want to be a part of, and not just because you know they have the job and the check, but are you going to have a good experience there? And do you know what a good experience is for you?
Barry: It's interesting because again it comes back to that intentional reflection of knowing yourself.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah.
Barry: And what you're looking for, and therefore aligning yourself as much as possible with the culture that you want to be surrounded by and the people you want to be surrounded by, the work that you want to do within all of that.
Adrian J. Hopkins: That's right. I mean if we're if we're fortunate, you know we get to be the free agents of our own careers and put ourselves in positions that just help us feel like we can do all the things that matter to us. So you know the it's a very integral or integrated approach to work and life.
Barry: Yeah. Yeah. And I think the work-life balance sometimes as a concept can put them at odds when they really are right in the hole because it's the same person at the end of the day, just in maybe a slightly different environment. Last question. You mentioned generative AI. Obviously it's an ever-evolving landscape. What concerns do you have when it comes to the world of communications and messaging, and that is not necessarily, perhaps it is only in the world of work... it could be outside the world of work. What are the things that you look at maybe in two years time or three years time that are top of mind for you and maybe don't sit so comfortably with you?
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah. I mean I think, and because I have um, I have a niece and two nephews you know who are you know who are teenage, early 20 years. So I think about what the world of work is going to be like for them.
Barry: Yeah.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Um, we are in the middle of making things for us right now. So but it's like okay well if I'm... am I like, I just I just turned 40 last year and it's like what do I want the world to be like for them? I think that it's what's going to be most critical for how AI is used is what has always been most critical, which is like the ability to maintain um a sense of independence, knowing how do I want to use this? Okay. Understanding like new tools get developed all the time, um you know new ways of working get developed all the time, but what do I want and what is most important for me and the community that I'm a part of, and not just sort of dollar chasing or trend chasing, um or just jumping on things for their own sake just because it's the newest thing. Like we can do that to oblivion.
Barry: Yeah. Yeah.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Um, but the ability to maintain critical thinking and have self-awareness um I think is so vital. And I just want to make sure that... because I will use pretty much anything that comes out, right? But it's like I because I want to think about how I want to use it. And I think AI, I think generative AI works best when you start to understand how does it fit into what you're trying to accomplish um versus trying to use things to take a shortcut. Um you know, am I going to learn something new? How can I put this into the context of what matters to me the most?
Barry: Yeah, because I... you mentioned critical thinking there. I think critical thinking is going to become one of those core skills that is going to drive so much progress...
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah.
Barry: In a way that AI just probably can't right now. It's the... that's where the danger happens to be, because if you don't apply critical thinking to how you use it...
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah.
Barry: Um, then you can get outputs that are dangerous, that are just frankly um just like devoid of humanity.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah.
Barry: And it's the the... one of our beliefs is that AI will actually put humanity back at the center of organizations. Storytelling, critical thinking, it certainly can. The creative process.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah. A lot of strategic decision-making. Of course. It's all about discernment really.
Barry: Yeah, I mean we are all using AI in lots of different ways I'm sure, but it's knowing when to listen and when to not listen.
Adrian J. Hopkins: That's exactly right. I mean if you can use AI to speed up you know the tasks that are worth automating so that you can free up your time to be more strategic and be more thoughtful, to actually spend more time you know with your colleagues... I think that that's that's noble.
Barry: Great. Adrian, thank you for your time.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Thank you for having me. Thank you for coming to Brooklyn. And next time I'll have to get some fashion advice from you so that I can actually show up.
Barry: No you got it. In a way that will allow me to come to Brooklyn and feel a couple vintage shops I can take you to!
Adrian J. Hopkins: We're good to go. Thank you very much.
Barry: You got it man. Thank you.
“The Daily Yes” – Interview with Adrian J. Hopkins, Weber Shandwick
Adrian J. Hopkins: I'm just uniquely fascinated with whatever people seem to be fascinated by and making sure that they feel like someone cares about the fact that they do it.
Barry: Yeah. What a morning for this.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Well this is the perfect New York morning. If you're going to be here for just a short period of time this is the view I would want to have anybody see. Obviously being in Manhattan is nice, I just happen to think looking at Manhattan is better. That's the Brooklynite in me.
Barry: Yeah, you can tell the style. The style as we were talking about before this is... I never feel cool enough to really walk...
Adrian J. Hopkins: It's just about, honestly it's just about whatever makes you comfortable and makes you feel good. And like that's what this... I think that's what I've loved about living in New York and why I always wanted to live here is that everybody can be themselves here. And I think especially being in the space that we've been in around employee engagement and employee experience and all that, one of the things I've said is being your best authentic self. Yes. And so this city I think is such a great laboratory for that. And it's one of the uh, you know major factors for why being in this career is just constantly inspiring for me because I get to walk around New York City, I see so many people living different lifestyles, speaking different languages, you know, wearing flag clothes. I'm just like, why would you have to put any of that under a bushel to go to work? Yes. You know.
Barry: Yeah. Tell us about your current role.
Adrian J. Hopkins: I'm the Global Head of Employee Engagement and Communications at an agency called Weber Shandwick. And that is a title, but one of the ways that I describe it when I talk to people who are not in this space is "the daily yes." Okay. And so the daily yes is what are the factors that are happening at work that make you feel like you're excited to go to work that day? So is it great relationships with colleagues? Is it what you get to learn? Is it, you know, the fact that you're doing work that solves problems for clients? Are you winning awards? Are you best in class, are you best in industry? All of that is what we can say is true at Weber Shandwick.
And it's exciting to do that for a firm that is doing great creative work, doing great advisory work, great work in technology. And for me, it's just about making sure that globally across all of our operations, is there a consistent approach to how we provide the employee experience? Sure. And so having great partners in the EMEA region and APAC and LATAM and being here in North America, all of us have the same goal. And my job is not to make it uniform, but just to make sure that we are allowing each uh, each region to be unique and provide great programming, great consistency to, you know, the business objectives, you know, putting it all together.
Barry: So when you think about communications or a communication strategy...
Adrian J. Hopkins: Mhm.
Barry: When you want to build one of those from the ground up, what are the core elements or principles, components of that that you always want to see in place?
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah, I mean first and foremost, you know, every organization has business objectives. So you cannot come up with a strategy that is not tied to that. Okay. So for us you know, it is being an industry leader and making sure that people feel like they are part of the agency that is the agency of the future. Okay. So not just solving the problems that clients bring to you, but can we use enough of our insights and intelligence and technology to be able to predict where challenges may arise? And that can range from, you know, strategic crisis uh, management, it can also range you know, down to just brilliant creative executions.
And so all of that as the sort of top frame, then what do we need to make sure that people have um, access to in order to be able to bring their best selves to that job and make sure that they understand how their job fits with the strategy? And so the communications strategy that we're really running right now is in our global town halls that we do twice a year. And for that, it's always going to have a sort of big picture of like, here's where we are, and then also here's where it's for you.
Barry: Okay, interesting, because we talk about that all the time as well. The "what's in it for me." Because without that it becomes... it just becomes quite conceptual.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah.
Barry: And theoretical almost. It's like, well okay, that's great that at a high corporate level that's the objective and that's the goal, but how does that impact my daily work and the impact that I can have as an individual?
Adrian J. Hopkins: Exactly. And if you consider too that you know, I remember probably about 10 years ago, I can't remember whose book it was, but the concept of the tour of duty when it comes to career, where individuals are deciding which companies to work for and which type of roles they want to be in. So I think in the communications realm, when we're talking about how to address employees, we got to understand that we are, first of all, any comms that we send to them is interrupting them from whatever it is that they were doing prior to getting this email. So make it worthwhile in the moment. And then also understand that people are thinking about, "well, I'm going to do my best in this role," but they might be thinking of you know, other things that they may want to do in their careers. So while they're here at this place, what are we doing to help them feel like they can do the best work of their careers while they're here and to help us power what matters to us in the business?
Barry: And what is it that lights you up when it comes to that work, your role? What is it where you go "that's the part I love"?
Adrian J. Hopkins: So I would say that honestly the personal relationships that I get to have with people who have so many different backgrounds and so many things that are interesting to them. I've been very fortunate to have managers who were willing to invest in me and provide all the different experiences that seemed interesting to me that also solved business problems. And so it's fascinating for me to meet people who do so many different types of um, do so many types of jobs. Yeah. So people who are excelling in you know, developing our AI agents, or people who are excelling in creative, people who are excelling in like you know, being the like killer executive admin. It's like I'm just uniquely fascinated with whatever people seem to be fascinated by and making sure that they feel like someone cares about the fact that they do it. Yeah. And so that's I think that ultimately is what motivates me every day because I just am genuinely interested in people who are just committed to something.
Barry: It's interesting that you've got a globally dispersed audience.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah.
Barry: And the common ground in the comms, in the messaging.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah.
Barry: How... are there certain things you look for when it comes to designing that message or delivering that message to make sure that it's globally consistent but locally relevant?
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah, I mean having core values as um, as an agency helps make that a lot more attainable. A lot more attainable. Yeah. Um, because I can't really speak to what the day-to-day experience in Singapore is like. And I won't necessarily try to force it into any box. But if we know that we're committed to inclusion as a value, or to creativity as a value, courage as a value, you know then that I think gives us enough of a common ground to start and we can form the right comms from there about like what's mattering locally, but we're still speaking to the same values that we all share.
Barry: What have you, by the way... do you ever come out here and does this ever get old for you?
Adrian J. Hopkins: No, it does not. I've always wanted to live in New York and whenever I'm at this area I think about the history of the city. I think about who I was you know when I was growing up. I mean the Statue of Liberty is right there. Um, so you really get to see so much of the city's evolution um, all in one shot. So you have some of the oldest skyscrapers, some of the newest skyscrapers. And for me as a person who is um, very much motivated by change but also very grounded in history, I get this all in one shot anytime I come over here.
Barry: Yeah. It's amazing isn't it? It's like the classic skyline view. Yeah. How much do you think the... you mentioned earlier on about having such a concentration of different people, different experiences on your doorstep.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah.
Barry: How much do you think the place where you've been for the last 20 years has shaped the way you are maybe in work and out of work?
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah, a great deal. I mean I think two things. One, as I've grown up and I've been really fortunate to have you know great education and great um, great professional relationships, the thing that's always been important to me is to be the same person in my personal life as I am in my professional life because I have always been supported to be that way. And so New York is a laboratory where I'm just seeing that on a day-to-day basis. So that's thing one.
Thing two is you know, there's just so... there's such a rich diversity of the experiences that people have here and what people do. So riding the subway every single day in the way that I do is also its own sociological experiment where you can just see like people off to different types of jobs, you know, people who are working quote-unquote blue collar jobs, people who are working you know the white collar jobs, people who are you know struggling economically. It really helps me have a sense of place. Yeah. And helps me have great context and I think um, perspective about what I get to do every day. So you know, even in the times that um you know work gets challenging, it is still a great privilege that I have to be able to have a job first and foremost and then have a job that also allows me to think about other people's experiences for a living.
Barry: Yeah. It's interesting that you're you're thinking about that from a curiosity perspective as a person. Yes. It is important for your role because you are also communicating messages to a huge range of people. Yeah. But you know we've talked to people about work-life balance and how yes it's important, but I think more and more when authenticity is probably at a greater premium than it's ever been...
Adrian J. Hopkins: Mhm. It's your whole self. It is. It is.
Barry: So of course we want to make sure that we're not all consumed by anything at any one time perhaps.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah.
Barry: But knowing that the authenticity of whoever you are, the focus may shift but the person stays the same.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah, I mean and even the concept of work-life balance is something that you know is a term we I think we all try to mean the same thing when we say it, but I think the last 5 years you know, from the COVID experience, I think blew the doors off of whatever the box was. Like "well, work has to be like this, life has to be like this." It's like, well they're kind of smashed into themselves right now. And again being conscious of whatever may have happened in people's lives within the past 5 years as they've gone through um, you know a global pandemic. Did they lose people in their lives? Did they have to relocate from where they used to live? Has anything changed in their life? Probably a lot of things have changed in their lives. So to try to just be conscious and respectful of that as we're also trying to you know move an organization forward just feels like a constant um, it's like a constant reminder.
Barry: Yeah. Yeah.
Adrian J. Hopkins: It's like a constant challenge, is a constant like "remember, even though the world has gotten to a different place or you know we're outside or you know we're post-COVID," um, I again being a history major, being grounded in like "we're not that far from whatever just happened," um, it's just like it stays fresh for me.
Barry: You know what's interesting about our conversation so far is that sense of perspective is something that you seem to hold very tightly.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah, it means a lot to me to do that. Yeah.
Barry: Adrian's first paid job right? What was that?
Adrian J. Hopkins: Uh, well the first paid job incidentally was when I was a kid because my mother was working in an office job and she paid me an allowance of sorts...
Barry: Yes.
Adrian J. Hopkins: To alphabetize all of her files.
Barry: Okay.
Adrian J. Hopkins: So all the manila folders, making sure that everything was lined up you know in the right way.
Barry: Yeah. Smart delegation.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Absolutely. Absolutely. And she also knew I was really motivated by it, that by you know, by language and by spelling things correctly, I was a spelling bee champion.
Barry: Okay.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Um, so that was... that was the true first you know, paid job. But then coming here, um, my first job was working in television.
Barry: Oh right. Okay.
Adrian J. Hopkins: And so that was in 2006 and I was working at the VH1 TV network um, under the MTV umbrella. And it was at that point, it was I think it was a perfect place to start my career, especially now given what I've been up to right? Which is that was a place that I got to... I could have gone to work just like this, and you know in terms of this attire there are people who were... yeah like but also I mean it was the coolest, it was the coolest brand um on the planet at that point. And so to feel like I can be um, you know, professional and hip at the same time, it's like well why would I want to... why would I want to put a suit on for any other job that I have?
Barry: And did you intentionally seek out... was that something that you were conscious of at the time? I mean I'm sure the brand is attractive, the industry was exciting. Um, is... was that the attraction for you, or was the attraction that this fits me more than putting a suit on every day or whatever that might be?
Adrian J. Hopkins: I think it was... I mean it was a blend of both. I mean I had always been fascinated by the media and communications industry because I am someone who was fascinated by storytelling, fascinated by brand. And having been um, most recently in college right before then, I had been a magazine entrepreneur. And so I was very motivated by figuring out the right blend of creativity and business. And so finding my way into that environment at age 21, 22 felt like the best place to start my career for whatever it was I was going to do next.
Barry: Yeah. Have you ever found the tension between creative endeavor—excuse me—or creativity and commerciality a challenge? Have you ever had instances where one has had to slightly lean toward the other, or have you ever had to think about "well we're just going to have to be a little more commercial here because that's where it is"?
Adrian J. Hopkins: Um, I've been fortunate to I think, living at the intersection, I've not been a place... I've not been in a place where I've had the sole creative decisions land on me. Okay. But understanding that conflict that can exist, I have often been in that place where... take for instance I was um, the head of strategy at a creative agency after I was at VH1 for three years, went to grad school and then went to a branding agency. Um, I had to be the person that was effectively the diplomat or the translator between like what the client is looking for and what my designers are trying to execute. So we have people who are trying to make killer web designs, you know have the most brilliant type execution for the visual identity. And I'm on the other side hearing from the client and saying "I can't read that. Make the logo bigger." Right? And I'm just like "Okay cool, I understand what you're trying to say, we're talking about legibility." So that's what you want to hear. And also like, you want to make sure that um, that your brand shows up well. So I have to learn how to have that two-way dialogue you know, to live between um you know two potentially divergent points of view.
And so that's how I think about the balance that has to exist between the sort of commercial needs and creative needs, because ultimately we're trying to just solve problems. Ultimately we're just trying to get messages out to audiences at the right place and right time in the right format. And we just have to find the right harmony to do that that makes people have the maximum amount... the maximum amount of satisfaction.
Barry: Yeah. And the least amount of hating each other.
Adrian J. Hopkins: So somewhere in there I think we can find a good product.
Barry: Yeah. If you can make that happen it's... it's the goal. Yeah, let's think about uh, maybe a moment in your career where you went down a certain path and it may have been challenging, and at the end of it it led to maybe something else. And was there ever a time where you thought "Oh, I'm not sure about this"?
Adrian J. Hopkins: Okay, yes. Yes. So as I said, you know, starting my career in uh that intersection of creativity and business and being fascinated equally by both, I thought that my career was going to go in a direction that was going to lead into you know general management or running a company you know, being the head of a media brand. Yes. And I was fortunate to find myself working at the New York Times when they were investing quite a bit in brand marketing um, at an entity called T Brand Studio. And having come from a creative agency I was like "Okay, this is going to be my my platform to really show that I can do this on a big institutional level and figure out how to build something inside of a storied brand." Yeah.
And along the way what I found was not so much uh, objections or hurdles to that, but I found myself... and this is what I realize when I talk to people who I do career coaching for... it's like what you're naturally spending time on is actually the thing that you want to be doing. So I got to the organization, I got to the Times, I started to spend a lot of time talking to the you know, peers who are about my age. I was just in my early 30s at that time. Yes. About their careers and like how you know, what are you working on here? And I kept hearing stories over and over again like "yeah, I want to do this, but I'm not really sure how to figure out the right way to to go explore that path." Or I would talk to people who had been there for 20 years, they were probably 20 years you know my senior, they were saying the same thing. And I was like "okay, we just got to figure out what's going on here."
And so I just found that I became so much more motivated by this professional development problem or professional development challenge, and the advertising sort of gusto that I had started to really go by the wayside. And rather than having a sort of career existential crisis... I mean I did have a bit of that... but rather than sort of living in that moment, I decided to bet on myself and took a chance to knock on the door of the head of HR at that time. And I asked her what she had in mind for career development. And she said that mentorship was a big priority for her and she wanted to make sure that there could be something that could be applicable for everyone at the company. And I said, "Well I don't have an HR background, I had been running a uh, a career advice column on the side and had been doing career coaching on the side, and I had done some other you know entrepreneurial things inside of the Times you know from where I was sitting in the studio." And I said, "Well listen, I'd love to be a part of making something like that happen for you." She said, "Well we're going to open up a role and why don't we get you in the lineup for candidates for that." And I had to prove myself you know to the newsroom, to the business side... and to HR of course... that this guy with no HR background could come in and run a mentorship program. And I got the gig and I ran that for three years and it became something that they still run right now.
Barry: Wow. So that's the legacy of you going and taking the ownership of your own career.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah, exactly.
Barry: And asking the question.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Asking a question. And then just again, just paying attention to where are my natural activities, my interests actually going? Because it's one thing for me to say that I'm passionate about advertising, for me to say that I'm passionate about media, but where am I actually spending my time? It's with people. And it's listening to people, it's talking with people. It's trying to help individuals solve these major career questions that they have. And that pivot in 2017 after I had been in my career for about a decade really launched me to everything that I've done ever since.
Barry: Wow. When you talk to people that might be in early stages of their career now... is that a key thing that you say to them, like ultimately you're responsible? Yes. And do you think it's actually even just early stage? Do you think it's actually everybody? Yes. Ultimately you're responsible for driving where you're going next.
Adrian J. Hopkins: It is. But I think it's also, and that's one thing I say, and you heard me say it, I'm a history major even still, you know I've been out of college for 20 years. But I think that it serves people well to be students of their own careers. So asking questions about the fields that they're interested in, reading the trades or reading whatever it is that might be impacting the field of the work that they want to do. Yep. Um, I think that also will help them kind of see where... what am I continuing to read, or can they sustain their interest in that thing long enough? And then from there I think that's where the career interest actually emerges. Because they may be motivated by like "well I just want to make money." It's like "okay well there's a lot of different ways to make money." So what are you actually going to do to stay committed to that profession or stay committed to that role when things get hard? Not if things get hard, but when things get hard. Are you going to be interested enough in solving this problem? Do you have a thesis? Do you have a you know... do you have a burning thing in you that keeps you up at night to say like "I just can't stand the way that this thing happens and I'm going to solve it like this"?
Barry: Do you find there's an opportunity with a communications role or strategy that fosters that culture of I guess intentionality, or people being intentional with the reflection or the what's next part of it? Ultimately probably an openness.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yes. I think so. I mean I've been fortunate to have, again having the HR background that I do, I've also been fortunate to have this partnership in communications roles where it does have a natural tendency to link up with the talent development teams. Yes. Okay. And so it's easy to say "okay well we're trying to push these things out for the business." Yeah. "But what do you have going on from the learning and development aspect that also plugs into the business objectives?" And how can we make sure that people see the opportunity to learn as alongside of what we want people to be striving for.
Barry: On your town halls... you said you run them twice a year?
Adrian J. Hopkins: Our global ones we do twice a year.
Barry: Town halls. Do you set those up in such a way that I'm sure there's uh you know, high-level strategic initiatives, update on corporate goals etc. But is there... and I'm thinking of some of your New York Times experience as well, which I'm sure is uh positively challenging from a comms perspective. It's very much a two-way street I would have thought. Um, is that something you've brought forward with you into your current position in the way that you think about structuring a town hall environment?
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah. That where it is two-way. For sure. And so I think about two-way in two ways incidentally um, inside out, outside in. Okay. So and that's something that I've picked up uniquely from the folks at Weber Shandwick, which I love because these are folks who as I mentioned, they're at the intersection of culture in all these different um different fields. Yep. So it's important inside out to be able to see like "okay well how does the work that we're doing right now transform the communications industry?" So we'll make sure that we have some element of programming where we get to talk to an outside partner right, um about whether they're a client or you know someone who's uh in the um in the media about what is the work that we're doing inside, what is that impact having on you know on the field outside. Sure.
Um, but then outside in, I think an example is if we're hearing so much about generative AI or agentic AI, what does that mean for what we do here? Yes. And so that is actually something that we are focused you know very uniquely on because we've built our own platforms to be able to augment what we do specifically. So it's not just "everybody go use you know whatever the latest you know like the trendiest platform happens to be." Like we've built something that helps you do uniquely what you need to do for your clients. And so we take the best of the outside and make it relevant for you. And then obviously the inside or the other two-way is just like effective leaders, leadership, citizenship. Yes. Dialogue. Yes. To making sure that people feel like there's a consistent feedback loop and having leaders feel that it's their responsibility to be approachable, but also it's your responsibility as a day-to-day employee to ask the questions that you want to have answered.
Barry: Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. Again it comes back to that ownership point.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Mhm.
Barry: Of there's something on your mind, you got to go ask it.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah. Who's going to know?
Barry: Yeah. And I... it's uh, it sounds like the values work that you mentioned earlier on feeds that.
Adrian J. Hopkins: It does. It does. I mean again being in an organization that takes the values seriously is what makes all of that feasible. Because it's one thing to just say that you have the value of "who's in there" that's written up on a wall somewhere.
Barry: Yeah exactly.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Um, but I see it and I feel it. And I think this is also you know from a career standpoint, helping people understand that when they're interviewing for roles for instance, that they should also be interviewing the company. You know, making sure that they can get what they're looking for out of the role. Like what's the environment that you want to be a part of, and not just because you know they have the job and the check, but are you going to have a good experience there? And do you know what a good experience is for you?
Barry: It's interesting because again it comes back to that intentional reflection of knowing yourself.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah.
Barry: And what you're looking for, and therefore aligning yourself as much as possible with the culture that you want to be surrounded by and the people you want to be surrounded by, the work that you want to do within all of that.
Adrian J. Hopkins: That's right. I mean if we're if we're fortunate, you know we get to be the free agents of our own careers and put ourselves in positions that just help us feel like we can do all the things that matter to us. So you know the it's a very integral or integrated approach to work and life.
Barry: Yeah. Yeah. And I think the work-life balance sometimes as a concept can put them at odds when they really are right in the hole because it's the same person at the end of the day, just in maybe a slightly different environment. Last question. You mentioned generative AI. Obviously it's an ever-evolving landscape. What concerns do you have when it comes to the world of communications and messaging, and that is not necessarily, perhaps it is only in the world of work... it could be outside the world of work. What are the things that you look at maybe in two years time or three years time that are top of mind for you and maybe don't sit so comfortably with you?
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah. I mean I think, and because I have um, I have a niece and two nephews you know who are you know who are teenage, early 20 years. So I think about what the world of work is going to be like for them.
Barry: Yeah.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Um, we are in the middle of making things for us right now. So but it's like okay well if I'm... am I like, I just I just turned 40 last year and it's like what do I want the world to be like for them? I think that it's what's going to be most critical for how AI is used is what has always been most critical, which is like the ability to maintain um a sense of independence, knowing how do I want to use this? Okay. Understanding like new tools get developed all the time, um you know new ways of working get developed all the time, but what do I want and what is most important for me and the community that I'm a part of, and not just sort of dollar chasing or trend chasing, um or just jumping on things for their own sake just because it's the newest thing. Like we can do that to oblivion.
Barry: Yeah. Yeah.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Um, but the ability to maintain critical thinking and have self-awareness um I think is so vital. And I just want to make sure that... because I will use pretty much anything that comes out, right? But it's like I because I want to think about how I want to use it. And I think AI, I think generative AI works best when you start to understand how does it fit into what you're trying to accomplish um versus trying to use things to take a shortcut. Um you know, am I going to learn something new? How can I put this into the context of what matters to me the most?
Barry: Yeah, because I... you mentioned critical thinking there. I think critical thinking is going to become one of those core skills that is going to drive so much progress...
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah.
Barry: In a way that AI just probably can't right now. It's the... that's where the danger happens to be, because if you don't apply critical thinking to how you use it...
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah.
Barry: Um, then you can get outputs that are dangerous, that are just frankly um just like devoid of humanity.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah.
Barry: And it's the the... one of our beliefs is that AI will actually put humanity back at the center of organizations. Storytelling, critical thinking, it certainly can. The creative process.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Yeah. A lot of strategic decision-making. Of course. It's all about discernment really.
Barry: Yeah, I mean we are all using AI in lots of different ways I'm sure, but it's knowing when to listen and when to not listen.
Adrian J. Hopkins: That's exactly right. I mean if you can use AI to speed up you know the tasks that are worth automating so that you can free up your time to be more strategic and be more thoughtful, to actually spend more time you know with your colleagues... I think that that's that's noble.
Barry: Great. Adrian, thank you for your time.
Adrian J. Hopkins: Thank you for having me. Thank you for coming to Brooklyn. And next time I'll have to get some fashion advice from you so that I can actually show up.
Barry: No you got it. In a way that will allow me to come to Brooklyn and feel a couple vintage shops I can take you to!
Adrian J. Hopkins: We're good to go. Thank you very much.
Barry: You got it man. Thank you.
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