“That Wasn’t on My Bingo Card” – Interview with Steph Hess

Barry: Every drop should really... today we have got an amazing guest, uh, Steph Hess, most recently Chief Communications Officer at Discord. Um, has a 30-year plus career. We cover everything from, of course, her first job right through to how she's seen communications change over her career, um, and the role of communications within organizations of all sorts of shapes and sizes.

Steph Hess: One of the principles is like, okay, if I'm going to open a door, I'm going to bring somebody through with me.

Barry: Steph, you're very welcome.

Steph Hess: Oh, thank you.

Barry: Thank you for your time. Um, the question that we like to start with, because why we're here, we see there are no wrong turns in life but there are lots of turns, and we'd like to kind of go back to the beginning of that story. What was your very first job?

Steph Hess: I was a babysitter. Of course that was my first job at 12 years old, which now I don't think I would ever hand over my baby to a 12-year-old! But I had a summer babysitting gig with my best friend. But we had to be there on time, yeah, and we had to um, be there late at night because the parents were working. Yeah. Um, and when we got the cash at the end of the day, we were like, "Let's go get ice cream." So that was the first, um, the first kind of like, you know, "go be responsible" job. But my first official job where I was actually getting paid was at a doctor's office.

Barry: Okay.

Steph Hess: So I was the filing girl. Okay. So I would come in, file the charts, and I loved answering the phone.

Barry: Okay, what... what was your... do you remember your script?

Steph Hess: Um, "Good afternoon, Dr. Coat's office, this is Stephanie speaking." And then I didn't know what to do after!

Barry: Um, so moving forward then, we were catching up earlier on and you've had a storied career in technology. So where did that part of your journey start?

Steph Hess: Yeah, actually it started here in San Francisco. So I'm from the Bay Area. I went to Cal State Hayward, a mass communications major, minor in public relations. And uh, you know, I'm graduating and what do I want to do? And I had this great professor who was um, the VP of uh, publicity at a hospital. And so she um, recommended um, a a um, bulletin that you would get, like a newsletter, because there's always a lot of jobs you know, that were listed. Yep. So the first job that I got was through an ad. Mhm. Uh, and it was for a small PR agency in San Francisco on Maiden Lane and they had small tech and healthcare clients. So I studied how to do PR and publicity campaigns. And then my first day on the job they asked me to book a press tour, and I had no idea what they were talking about.

Barry: And was your answer to that question, "No problem, I got it, let me let me let me do that"?

Steph Hess: And there was really not a lot of internet research when I started, so I couldn't just Google it or ask ChatGPT. Um, so I quickly learned like how to be scrappy and resourceful and ask some other people like, "when they mean that, what are we putting together?" But it was like full-on thrown into like an account uh, and just try to like get, you know, some press to like you know, meet with our clients.

Barry: And what was it that made you comfortable saying the yes? Well, maybe the answer could have been maybe or no, but you just went straight in there. You're like, let's do it.

Steph Hess: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think it was... well, I was afraid number one and being called out to be like, "Oh, we just hired this young girl, like what does she do?" Um, but also just like, "Okay, it can't be that hard," um, because this whole agency of people and resources are around, like I should definitely like ask how to do it. But I studied um, communications um in college and just kind of fell in love with it. Um, ran my school newspaper and you know, was like the publicity chair in every group that I ever you know joined. Yeah. So getting to like do that um and get paid for it, like felt like I won the lottery.

Barry: The dream.

Steph Hess: Yeah, totally.

Barry: What is it and what was it that you loved about communications?

Steph Hess: So it's funny, I used to watch 60 Minutes growing up with my parents. So storytelling, which is now an overused phrase, but um, storytelling and kind of human interest um segments, I kind of just really like that. So I thought broadcast journalism was going to be the thing. Yeah. Um, and so you know, watching reporters and media you know put together some like really important stories. Um, which now I reflect back going, "Oh my god, journalism is so important to like society and what we're doing," and you know there was a heyday for it. Um, trying to blend that with um, trying to figure out like, "well do I work at a newspaper or am I working for a magazine?" And in college I had a professor who was a journalist and he's like, "Those jobs are hard." Yeah, yeah. "Um, do you want to move you know to um, the... to you know the middle of the country and take on a beat?" I was like, "I don't know if I could do that." And then he said, "Hey, what about publicity? You know, there's a whole new industry popping up around um how do you inform employees what's going on with the company. I think they do newsletters you know like that." Yeah. And I was like, "Okay, maybe I could blend that right?"

Um, but for me it's really like the arc of um how do you put a story together, whether it's about a product or an organization or just kind of what's going on in your neighborhood. Um, so and writing was always something that I loved to do and was pretty...

Barry: The craft of it almost.

Steph Hess: Yeah. Yeah, putting all the ingredients together. Okay. Um, and producing something that someone actually can learn something from or feels like, "oh, that feels familiar and really matters." I was fortunate to start in Silicon Valley in 1996 when I got my first job out of school. And um, dabbled on the PR agency side. So kind of understood how to show up for a client. Yeah. Um, I know you know this uh, well. And then um, had made a friend at the place that I worked and he recommended another agency. And that agency was bigger and I got to work on bigger accounts. And tech was just kind of, not new obviously, but um, the kind of internet age of tech was like really starting. And so I got lucky and got put on enterprise you know accounts. And then that led to meeting a friend who worked at Oracle. And then before you know it, I'm in-house at this huge company. Um, and you know we were doing a lot to establish what the company was doing um in new markets. So that felt like, "oh I can blend... I like to write, I like to do these kind of you know um, educational stories."

Barry: That's the word that came into my mind. Yeah. Because at that point in that, the rise of technology at that point, there were so many... there was so much newness. So communicating the offering and how it worked and all those things must have been really exciting.

Steph Hess: Yeah. And kind of getting to know the customers right? So the kind of you know importance of like what brands and companies are using these new technologies and how is it helping them? Like it was all new to me. Like I always said working in tech was like learning a new language. Okay, right. Um, and when you aren't accustomed to it and you get you know thrown into the middle of it, you're like, "Oh my god, it is a foreign language." And sometimes these customers weren't tech-savvy, but they were using you know the new kind of um innovations. And so how do you work with them? And they became personalities and we had these conferences and we were making them stars in their own careers right? So that made it feel even more real because you kind of saw "okay what are we building" and then "how are people using it" and then "does it... how's it helping their own communities or their own business lines?"

And then there's so many facets of marketing and comms, and when you work for a company like Oracle—even back when I was there—um, there's lots of different um you know avenues to take. So then I got really interested in corporate communication, like what does the company represent and what does it do for its employees? And how do we show up in the world, and what are those values? And so just got very lucky with some incredible mentors who let me shadow them and gave me little projects to work on. So then I saw the power of that storytelling ability get even more deep.

Barry: And when you think about the internal communication that happens, or your experience of that and the impact on the individual employee... because we were talking earlier on about how companies like Oracle and Google and all of, like whatever the scale is, they're all collections of individual humans. Yeah. And so I'd love to hear your perspective around how communications impacts at an individual level but then at scale. How do you think about that?

Steph Hess: Yeah. Well again, I had some amazing teachers. So after I was at Oracle I got to work at Sun Microsystems. Okay. Um, which was you know, one of the internet um you know, major kind of players, but had been around for a long time. And the company had an amazing culture and they really valued ensuring that employees understood what was going on. And I always remember thinking like, you know, we wanted to make sure the employees knew what we were doing before they read it in the news. Okay. So being able to kind of bring employee bases along so they understood, "well what am I working on right now? What am I building? What am I spending all my time on? And how's that helping the company? But what are we putting out into the world?" So um, that was a pretty um transformative experience working for that company because they really valued um not just talking at employees but really having them be part of the story.

Barry: And so what was the mechanism for that or what were the mechanisms for that at that time?

Steph Hess: Yeah. So I mean of course this was all in person. Yeah, yeah. So you had the benefit of like walking down the hallway right, and talking to people about, "Okay what are you working on and how do we want to share that um across you know the company and to the external audiences?" But it's just you know, again the core of storytelling, human interest: who are the people behind you know um that ticker symbol or that brand logo and how do you humanize it? So I did a lot of work just spotlighting employees and making them the heroes of the story right. Um, and because of that you were able to learn from each other. Yep. Um, and so we kind of created at that time just um some pretty innovative work around um how do you engage employees in the mission and in the story and turn them into the ambassadors. Okay.

Um, so uh, that just has stuck with me. So even all these years later in the roles that I've taken it's like, well what are we saying and how are we saying it and is it believable right? And how do you get people to be a part of it and not just reading some mantra... recipients... yeah. Or the values off the, you know, at the time it was you know the mouse pad that you would give out, like "what's the values?" I mean, look. Um, so that I think makes things feel a lot more tangible. And also being in comms this whole time like I always felt this responsibility of everybody has a family and everybody wants to know what you do at work. And if they don't know and they don't have to talk about it, like or what's going on with your company, if it's in the news for good things or bad things... So I would always kind of take on this added responsibility of like I want people to be proud of where we're working, or if there's some confusion about the company I want them to be able to you know share with their communities or their families like, "Hey yeah, I know you saw that story but this is what's really going on, or this is how we think about things."

Barry: Steph, we talked about uh some of your career journey, not all of it yet, but the role of communications and the delivery methods and the storytelling... that's probably all changed quite a lot in your time.

Steph Hess: Yeah, for sure.

Barry: Um, how... what are the changes or what have you seen?

Steph Hess: Well I mean I think employees um have a wealth of inputs that they can be following now. Yeah. Um, so there's no hiding okay what might or may not be happening at the company because they're either looking at things that are posted in various social channels or they're hearing from friends who are just as savvy. So I think the biggest thing is um, being honest and getting ahead of things um and giving people context. Yeah. Everybody wants context. They're proud of where they work, they spend a lot of time there, they don't want to be the last person to know that something may be off or even when things are good like how do they talk about it. So I think um, really kind of letting go of some of the control that we might have had years ago in corporate communications where we're like, "I don't know if we want to say that yet," and just um kind of leaning into trusting people a bit more. So if you can say, "Hey we're going through something, you're going to see it in the news." Um, you always want to beat the headline, yeah that's the... that's the goal. Um, but if you kind of prepare people then it's not shocking.

Um, there's so many times where I've woken up in the morning and there's like, "Did you see this or I don't know if you know about this but we were just in a store..." Yes I know, and I've tried to like... I've been working on that for like a couple weeks but you didn't see that. Um, but but really kind of letting people in, and if it's not at a point where you can tell all the employees, think about um the leaders in the company beyond the top you know um folks so they can then embrace it because they will get the questions from their employees too.

Barry: Has there ever been a time where there's been a particularly challenging piece of messaging? Yeah. That you've had to relay to whatever group of people at scale?

Steph Hess: Yeah. From a comm's perspective. Yeah. If you're working for a big brand that you've got a lot of consumers, millions and millions of people are interacting with your product or your company, there's going to be something right? Um, so you know I've dealt with things on you know the kind of company level where there's lawsuits against the company and you can't always litigate that in the press. It's always like, "we can't... we don't comment on ongoing litigation," but in the background there's a lot of fact-finding and you know kind of um understanding like "well what can we say? What can't we say? Are we are we um... is this even true?" Right? Because there's a lot of FUD out there right?

Um, so there's been those, there's been product issues, there's been data breaches, there's been um you know public and private issues um that you know we've dealt with and sometimes on the national scale where you know your name and the company's name just gets sucked into a national story. And I think for me I just go back to the principles of like, what do we know, when do we know it, and what can we say? Hiding and sitting on something never works. It didn't work 30 years ago and it doesn't work now.

And also I think the other thing too is that there's so many people in the company that are interacting on the company's behalf every day right? In different ways whether they're talking to partners or customers or um investors right? And so everyone's got a little bit of that um burden to carry for the company.

Barry: And so representation, yeah, to represent folks in the good times and in the challenging times.

Steph Hess: And so if you can arm them with even if it's two sentences right? That feels not like it's cringy or like really that's the fig... I always say like what's the fig leaf we can give people you know? Just to like, "Hey, can we just talk about this, let's address it and then let's you know talk about what we're here you know to do." Um, but you know some of them are prolonged. Um, and so it's also like conditioning the company to say like, "we're going to go through this for a little bit and you're going to see a lot of headlines and it's going to be hard and you're going to want to react to it and you're going to not want to like those posts, but if we can just stay together and informed and as I know information we can share it with you." Like not freezing people out is a big deal. But you know I think the speed in which rumors and stories just spread, it's really hard to control.

Barry: It's probably one of the biggest shifts that you might have seen from from the start of your career because there's just so many sources.

Steph Hess: Yeah. Yeah. I mean I think when I started out in my career, learning how to you know manage crisis and manage um the stories with reporters, like you had a little bit of breathing room. It may not have been days but you had a few hours. And now it's kind of a matter of minutes if someone posts something, it's very hard to go back to it and like correct the record. So um, also being aware and being plugged in to sources um really really important, gives you even more control.

Barry: If you think about the career journey that you're sharing with us, what were the guiding principles that moved you from place to place?

Steph Hess: Oh yeah. Oh gosh. I mean I think part of it is I felt so lucky to um work with people who were looking out for me too. All right. So one of the principles is like okay if I'm going to open a door I'm going to bring somebody through with me. Um, because I you know was the first person in my entire family to go to college. I didn't know what an internship was, I did but I didn't have anyone to like set it up for me or make an introduction. And so you know finding companies and teams that believed in that too... like how are we um expanding opportunities um for folks that may not have been trained in a certain way or have a certain res thing on their resume or a school that they went to, but like giving people a chance. So um, taking chances on folks that um were really leaning in and showing that they were interested um kind of has really stuck with me because people gave me that job.

Barry: Yeah. Because because what's interesting about that is that's a... that's quite an um, it's a purpose-driven personal mission. Yes. In an environment, particularly in technology where you know there's a lot of VC investment, there's a lot of you know financial metrics that need to be achieved. Totally. Because you do a lot of community-based work outside of your job. Yeah. Was that an almost like uh, a counterbalance maybe to some of the commercial work?

Steph Hess: Yeah, for sure. I mean I I've always been involved in women's groups at all my companies or you know employee groups that are still incredibly important um and supportive of those things because this is a way that you connect with people outside of the product roadmap or the earning cycle. And everyone's busy and you're like, "Hey, can we just drop our shoulders for a minute and relate?" Um and so yeah, that has been really important to me. Um, because on paper I had no business being a CCO at a large company right? So who else is out there that maybe doesn't you know kind of have all the elements that Silicon Valley or other companies kind of value? Um so that's been important in a lot of the hires I've made or opportunities in the company to move people from one work to the next. Like I've really thought about that because um you know I've made some hires that were premature or people didn't understand, "well why would we bring someone with that kind of experience in?" Those were the best people that I've ever worked with and those people are now doing huge things in other places and are authoring books and influencing how tech is going. And these were folks that you know I was kind of told like "I don't know if that really fits what we need."

Barry: So what is it outside of the idea that you obviously enjoy giving people the opportunity, like what is it in the ether that helps guide you to "well this person really deserves a shot"? Because I mean it's...

Steph Hess: I don't know, it's like reading people right? Like can you sit down like this and have a conversation and can you tell me you know what was your first job? What was your first job right? How did that... how did you take that opportunity and make it some, as much as you can out of it? Um, and are you curious? And are you real? And um, do you enjoy what you do? Do you like even the craft that we're in or is it just a job? Um, so a lot of the folks that I'm the closest with now that I don't even work with anymore are the people that had that curiosity that I was willing to like say, "I really believe in this person and they're going to be great on the team. I don't know exactly what the job will be right this second but it's going to be opportunistic." And when I worked at Asana like we had such a great team there and we were able to build in that way. Um, and I just felt really lucky to be in that position to give people the opportunity that I probably wouldn't have gotten in all cases.

Barry: It's so interesting because in an environment, particularly now with all of the fast-moving companies in technology, how do you think or view the role of patience or how do you balance... yeah... is like really fast-moving, really dynamic, extremely results-driven in a short time frame with the patience of knowing well certain things just might take a bit longer?

Steph Hess: I mean I think that's the part where as leaders, when you get to be in a position that you have some autonomy and some power, you've got to kind of just put your elbows out and say like, "We need a minute." Yeah. And it doesn't always work. A lot of times people have been like, "Steph you don't have a minute, like we got to go and it's got to happen by Tuesday." And you're like, "Um... but can... can you project calm? Can you project patience? Can you talk about long-term sustainable ways to work and the processes that you're bringing together with people and how do you bring your employees and your team along?" Um, there's this frenetic energy everywhere. That happened 30 years ago. It's happening now. But can you be the person that's a little bit of the you know controversial figure in the way that you're like, "It's going to be a minute. Yeah, I don't think my team can do that in a in that kind of you know time frame." And those are boundaries that I have had to practice my entire career.

Barry: And have you learned them? Is it behavior?

Steph Hess: Oh it is.

Barry: Or is it like you saw someone do it really well? "Oh that's it, I can do that."

Steph Hess: Yeah. It's a little bit of a mixture right, of who do you respect, who gains that respect because they have a boundary. Yeah. Um, best practice. And like, what does it feel in your body when you're leading a team? And it's like we are so in a crunch but can we be calm in that crunch? Um, and I think for me like I I was a you know, I'm a mom, I have two daughters, I was a working parent. Nobody... I a lot of times I was the first parent on my team and everyone's hustling and going and I'm like "I got to go pick up" or "I'm going to go to the field trip today." And it's so easy to say no. Yeah. But you know those kinds of things, I had working parents and they couldn't do that for me. And so that was something that I wanted to change you know as a parent that had a little bit more um autonomy in my jobs than what my mom and dad had. So it's the modeling and having the courage to be like, "they're not going to like this but I'm going to slip that deadline."

And I wouldn't slip an earnings deadline because that is you know consequential to the company or a launch date. But if it's like on the edge of "hey we could do this thing in a week or we could do it in three weeks," like "okay well what's the team going to look like in a week physically emotionally mentally, or what's the team going to get to do if we have a little bit more time?" Um, but it's hard and it's getting harder now. Like it seemed like there was a period where people were in their flow and we got to kind of choose some of that stuff and you know now it's just like everything's rapid fire and tech is always rapid but that feels a little bit like we're in a different um model now where it's just kind of like pace um for pace's sake.

Barry: You mentioned sustainability and uh how that has impacted your working world. We caught up earlier on and we we were talking about the importance of health and and keeping yourself intact.

Steph Hess: Totally.

Barry: Um, and you've got some relatively recent experience around your own health story and your own health journey that has probably impacted some decision-making in your working life.

Steph Hess: Yeah, a thousand percent. So in 2021 you know we're all going through our COVID experience and we're all home and you know maybe you're delaying doctor's appointments, maybe you're not staying on top of things because everything's kind of closed and limited. Um, my experience was that um, I found a lump in my breast. Um, and I knew it wasn't just fatty tissue. Yeah. It it was something that physically uh I knew in my body it wasn't right. So um it turned in you know turned out that I self-detected stage two breast cancer. Um, it was treatable but it wasn't going to be an easy um process for me. And so for most of '21 and '22 I was a cancer patient.

Barry: Whoa. That was not on the bingo card.

Steph Hess: It wasn't on the life card! I had no history. I was pretty on top of everything. Um, no indication that this would be kind of my uh chapter in my life. And so it was humbling. Um it was uh, it was the record stop in my life. And my daughter, we had just moved. Um, we lived in San Francisco for a long time. We moved to the East Bay. So we're in a new community. I'm working from home. You know all these things are happening.

Barry: Difficult. Difficult. Difficult. You're somewhat removed or you're likely removed from the community...

Steph Hess: That's right. Actually post the move...

Barry: That's right. The actual home move.

Steph Hess: Yeah, yeah. And the fact that the world just was what it was at that time. Yeah. And we didn't really kind of... was '21 so we all knew what was going on, we were masked up, but like nobody really knew the effect. So there wasn't like... I didn't see my parents for a while and they lived 20 minutes away from me, but I didn't want to get them sick. And so it was isolating for my husband and I and our daughters right? But when I found out, I told my girls and they were you know younger, so they were um third and seventh... or sorry they were um eighth grade and um fourth grade. And I was like, "Okay, what would I do at work? I would assemble a team. I would assemble a team and I would think..."

Barry: Professional kicked in. You're like, "Yeah, what do I need? Crisis management, here we go."

Steph Hess: Yeah, so crisis management for myself. Um, my work colleagues you know were so lovely and rallied around me even though we were all you know kind of in our own homes when it was happening. But you feel like none of it matters. Um, like what's going on with this deadline? What have I been working for? Why have I you know been making some of these choices? Where's the stress coming from? Um, how do I slow it down? And so it was um, you know I'm on the other side of it, I'm you know cancer-free, but I'm still you know what they call in the heightened management you know phase of my experience. Um, but you know everything from I had to shave my head, to I had to take time off, to I had to um trust the team that I built that they were going to carry on while I was taking care of myself. And you know my husband and I have been married now 26 years, and that was a big test of our relationship, our marriage. You never want to see your partner suffering. And then having young, young children you can't hide it. So being honest and real about what is happening with me so they didn't have to guess or we weren't talking in secret code. Um, it exposed everything. So um, yeah I view things in a different way.

Barry: And and in what way? Like what... as you start to re-enter the world of work...

Steph Hess: Yeah.

Barry: What goes through your mind post that experience? Where are you putting your energy? Yeah. Where are you setting your boundaries? Are you living for you and your joy and the things you want to do? Are you part of a system that expects something out of you?

Steph Hess: Yeah. Um, there's things that lovingly people said to me like, "Oh if anyone's going to beat cancer it's you, Steph." And I'm like, "What the fuck?" Yeah, easy for you! I don't know if that's true! And then that puts a lot of pressure because you're like, "Well I got to go beat this now for other people. Am I beating it for me or my family?" Um, so really trying to shed expectations. And really career, companies, organizations will take as much as you let them, as you give them. So at what point are you past the line? And that is not an easy thing to practice. Even when I had no hair and I was in the hospital bed for 10 days because I had a terrible reaction to something and you're bartering constantly like, "Okay, if I can get through this I will never work that hard again, I will never suffer my weekends, I will always hit the doctor's appointment on the day I'm supposed to do it." Really you know, you do it because you are scared. Yes. But then how do you really stay true to that? And what decisions are you making um when you find yourself not operating in that framework that you promised that you wouldn't you know fall into, or the traps?

Barry: So subsequently to your most recent role as CCO at Discord...

Steph Hess: Yes.

Barry: Which is an important role in that organization and in the broader tech community. Yeah. Did you find it challenging to sustain the feeling of "I'm never going to work weekends again" or the practice of "I'm not going to work past 6 p.m" or whatever those boundaries were? Did you find it difficult or easy?

Steph Hess: I tried really hard. My first week at Discord, which was a great experience and I was recruited by the CEO Jason Citron who's an amazing human, was "Here's my user manual for my team. These are my principles, these are my values, this is my boundaries. And I even said like 'Hey I'm your coach for endurance. Let's do this together'." And everyone's like, "Yes we love this! Amazing." And you know when I came into Discord I was bringing a couple of teams together for the first time and it felt really good because I was living the value.

Barry: Yeah. And you're in control.

Steph Hess: And you're in control. And I'm... there's no you know, no one's telling me what to do. I'm now the leader right of this group and these people. And it's a privilege. But as the company accelerates and management team changes and expectations change and all of a sudden it gets really real... I'm floating by my boundaries right? Where did that boundary go? Oh god, I really overshot the mark on that one. And and it was maybe a little bit implicit pressure because the company's growing and moving and going up against some some important challenges. But also it's a muscle memory that you have to build when you're saying no or you're really negotiating those boundaries for yourself. You're your biggest critic. You're your biggest um blocker to wellness and taking control of a situation. And I thought I was a little bit stronger and had more you know kind of resilience in that. But when you're in the middle of it, and I'm an Enneagram 2 which is the helper, your like shadow side is like "don't say no, say yes, go help the team, the people." It is a muscle memory.

Barry: Yeah, it is a muscle memory that you almost need to strangely de-tune.

Steph Hess: Yes. And it's not easy. It's not easy. And you know I um found myself kind of getting into a position where I was like bartering and sacrificing time with the family, and the thing you know the cycles got bigger and I was like "I don't know if this is good for me." Yeah.

Barry: So let's talk about that turn. Yeah. Yeah. Because that turn uh it's a really interesting place that you've now found yourself. Yeah. Yeah. And it's the "what comes next."

Steph Hess: Yeah. You know um... yeah, what comes next. Um, learning who I am and what I want to do in this phase of my life and chapter in my marriage and my parenting, in my friendships, and what am I giving of myself to a community around me. Um, so yeah I had a great experience at Discord. People there are awesome, I felt really um proud of the work that we did, and then I had to ask myself, am I re-upping for the next phase of that? Yes. And as I you know would give any advice to anyone that you know I'm mentoring or friends, I had to really pause myself and think like, am I taking my own advice? Uh, is my body telling me something? Um...

Barry: Was it? It was, it was...

Steph Hess: Oh yeah, it was. It was saying like "no mas".

Barry: Was it... was that showing up as tiredness, or what was that?

Steph Hess: Tired, um, burned out, um... not like my blood pressure was up, you know these things that you're like trying to actively manage. When you don't it creeps up on you. Um, and I mean menopause is real. I don't know if we've talked about this on this podcast before! There's a first time cracking open and then maybe we can do a followup!

Barry: But part two! Yeah, part two!

Steph Hess: Like that is a... it's a it's a chemistry shift in your body. And then now having been through an experience where I did chemotherapy and radiation, um, chemistry in your brain and in your body are just different. So can I race, do a race pace? Can I really give my full attention and self to this job and this commitment and this team? And I was like, "I don't want to fall short, and where is my energy going?" Where's my daughter? She's a freshman in college. My youngest is a freshman in high school. The years go fast. Um, and I was kind of losing touch with myself a little bit. Okay. Like I think I'm an interesting person, I kind of want to spend more time... right. So and how do you model that? Like model... my mom was a working mom, I really respected that in her. She worked really hard. Um, I kind of took that into my career and what I was doing with my girls, with my husband. And now I'm like what am I modeling? I'm modeling that I'm tired and I'm burnt out and maybe I'm not living in my joy and purpose. And it's got nothing to do with the company. It's what I'm putting out there. And so how do you make that shift?

Barry: How do you... how do you now... I suppose in the working world whether it's validation for the work you're doing and people are saying that's really good quality or it's a particular challenge that you're trying to crack and then you get to the solution that provides a lot of purpose...

Steph Hess: Totally.

Barry: So what do you think... and you may not have the answer to this...

Steph Hess: Oh it's okay.

Barry: But what do you think the purpose is in the next two years? So what does that look like for you?

Steph Hess: I mean I think it's getting grounded. It's getting grounded and and getting into a phase of my life where I'm not always on. Yeah. Um, it it takes a toll. 30 years of being in an exciting industry, I mean look at the city we live in. Look at like what is built here. And I've been so lucky to be a part of many of those transitions, shifts, and working with really incredible people. And now I can put that in a different place in my life. Yeah. I have my parents are still healthy and alive. Um, I want to spend time with them. So like how am I creating space for that? And then the community that I live... yeah, um, there's a lot of organizations that need help. Can I give some of me to those things that don't get any attention in the headlines, um whether it's investing or helping build that? But that matters to me.

Barry: So if we were sitting here in three years time...

Steph Hess: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Barry: What would you love to be able to say has happened?

Steph Hess: That I'm healthy. Yeah. Yep. That um my marriage is in a place where like we are enjoying this kind of time together where our kids are now launched. The biggest product launch of our lives was when we got our daughter to college and she got herself there, but we're like "Whoa, that was a big 18-year launch." We worked on that product roadmap and that felt really good. And now we have a you know, our younger daughter. Well kind of now what is that going to look like for her? Because they're not... kids are not cookie cutter. Yeah. So like that's a whole another launch factor. Um, and that um, I'm kind of living in part of my joy that feels like um I feel good in my skin and I'm um recognizing things in my community that I can impact. Um, and I'm traveling and seeing friends. Um, I don't know, a softer pace feels really good. Um, and I have a lot of um... I feel really proud of the people that I've worked with and worked for and who work for me and I get to see them do amazing things and that feels really great. Um, so I... you think about your career in increments and phases and impact, and so I feel like I really you know, this girl from Hayward you know who went to Cal State Hayward and not a a college that a lot of people gave a lot of credit to on like the scores of like you know "well what Ivy did you go to?" And I'm like I did it, and I did it without getting into debt and that feels really great. But now I've been able to say like I've had these experiences, I've made a big impact, I've had the big jobs. Um, and that's one part of winning. But the other part of winning in life and achieving is that um I'm... I'm fueling the people that I love and I'm getting that back.

Barry: Steph, last question. You'll be happy to to hear this is the last question. Um, what would you share as one thing that you definitely would not change and then one thing that you definitely would change?

Steph Hess: Gosh. Well, I wouldn't change uh the time I spent with the people that really invested in me. All right. I wouldn't change continuing those relationships right. I mean I I mean I have my... I talk about my work wives that I've spent time with and I've now collected and they're part of my sisterhood, um the folks that like you know you you worked intensely together for so long and you bond over these things. And then you know teams break up and you know people move on, but like staying in touch with people um is really important. And then you look back at like all of these people you've collected in your life uh and you think like, "Oh my gosh, I have stories and such good like not just memories but like I feel really proud of that stuff that I've learned so much." So I would absolutely wouldn't change all that, like my collection of humans. Um, and then the things that I I might change is taking my own advice. Yeah. Um, and and and truly like stopping the time to think, "Okay another another role, another opportunity, moving jobs whatever... is this really what I want or is it what's kind of expected of me because of what I do?" Mhm. So um, that takes the courage and the vulnerability and the ego to set the ego aside and be like, "Oh I could keep going or I could do that or that feels really good because it feels like an important role." And so what did...

Barry: Sorry I said last question, one more! There's like a like final question B. Um, is are there any sort of signals, or are there any tips I guess that you would give people to just help themselves trust themselves when it comes to that kind of feeling?

Steph Hess: Yeah, yeah. I mean I think when the curiosity light bulb or candle starts burning down the wick and it's not as you know vibrant, that's probably the time to like check back in with yourself. Okay. And think like is this really serving me, or am I just serving a thing because it's in front of me? Um, so I would say uh the "trust your gut" thing is really important. Uh, and if you build that network connection, real body of work, yeah, and trust with the people that you've been a part of and you're honest about it and you ask for help, they'll help you get to that other role or opportunity, or even just like the reality check of like "you don't look happy" or "you're thriving, keep going." Right? So like really investing in that kind of network for yourself because they're going to be the mirror for you. You can't hold up the mirror for yourself.

Barry: Great, Steph. Thank you so much for your time.

Steph Hess: We could talk for another two days!

Barry: We'll do a sequel. We'll do a sequel!

Steph Hess: Menopause! It's real!

Barry: So thank you so much. We look forward to that sequel.

Steph Hess: Okay. Thank you. All right.

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